ME: As a woman atheist, I find it a little disturbing that your google ads
feature a busty white woman in a tiny cop suit as a means of getting
attention. How is the objectification of women okay for the fight against
irrationality? This cheap means of advertising also excludes women and
non-white atheists from rational discourse, since its target audience is
clearly young white men. There must be another way to get your message out
there.
RRS: I run about 15 different ads. The one you're objecting to is clicked 10 times more frequently, this includes clicks from women. We pay per impression, not clicks, so the most rational thing to do is run the ad you object to more often. If we had the budget of the Vatican things would be different.
ME: Simply because women are included in the people who click the ad doesn't mean it's not sexist. The ends don't justify the means, and as a black woman atheist, I'm offended.
RRS: Be offended at humanity, as I am. Don't misdirect your frustration, you do so by directing your frustration at us.
ME: My anger does indeed also rest with the ills of humanity, but I have a very good reason to be frustrated with your organization and organizations like yours who would propagate the ills of humanity to suit your own ends. I think doing so does your organization a disservice. Sexism is a huge problem with many of the world's major religions, and to shrug off sexism as a necessity in the fight against irrationality seems to be counterproductive. I suppose you also misdirect your frustrations with Christian apologists and Intelligent Design proponents when you attack them and their followers for misrepresenting science and their own doctrines in order to suit their own ends? I suppose the best thing to do would be to shut down the Rational Response Squad and say, "What the hell--we can't possibly win the fight against irrationality, and that's that."
But you won't do that. You won't shrug off the hurtful mythology of some religions, because their ideas can be dangerous for scientific discovery, politics, public education, and people's lives. Your fight is important--you recognize that. But then you would denigrate or downplay the fights of others for the sake of convenience. I find this irresponsible.
RRS: Honestly I find it disgusting that one would assume that an ad is sexist simply because it portrays an attractive woman. Such thinking to me is irrational, illogical, and downright stupid. I thought you should know.
At what point in fighting for women to be accepted or being treated equally did you despise attractive women being models?
Your argument needs to be taken up with any man that would derive a lower opinion of women as a result of the ads, not the people running the ads.
This conversation will not go anywhere from here. We've had this argument dozens of times. We've ended up feeling that people arguing cases like yours are just as irrational as the religious people we seek to save from their beliefs.
So be offended... we are of you.
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After that I didn't respond. I didn't see the point. I thought I was being decently civil in demonstrating my points, but apparently I'm an idiot because I'm attempting to point out their hypocrisy. This is why I can't bring myself to join certain organizations or align myself with any official groups--I'm way too hesitant to label myself.
I never said the ad was offensive because it had an attractive woman in it. Because first of all, the woman isn't attractive. I'm no supermodel, but I have no reason to feel threatened by some anonymous figure in an ad. I'm confident enough in myself and I don't feel guilty for it. The only reason I decided to e-mail the Rational Response Squad in the first place is because I frequent a number of atheist blogs that run Google Ads on their sites and that ridiculous ad with the busty white woman in the cop suit was getting on my nerves. How can one make claims to progressivism while making ads that explicitly exclude non-white atheists and women who do not approve of objectifying other women? This kind of nearsightedness is what causes people like me to reject organizations like the Rational Response Squad even though I believe in many of the same things they do.
Did I ask them to pull the ad? No. Obviously, they can advertise any way they see fit. But that doesn't mean that I have to automatically align myself with an organization simply because they are atheists. Is it so much to ask to be included in popular discourse? Is it so much to ask that my opinions and perspectives be given respect?
The Oxford English Dictionary, defines objectification as such:
1. The action or an act of objectifying something; a material thing which embodies or expresses an abstract idea, principle, etc.
2. spec. The demotion or degrading of a person or class of people (esp. women) to the status of a mere object (see OBJECTIFY v. 2); reification; (also) behaviour or an attitude characterized by this.
sexual objectification: the regarding of a person or class of people (esp. women) only as a sex object.
Hello? Is this not what they are doing when their most prominent ad is one of a woman with her boobs hanging out and her skirt hiked up? Not to mention, they didn't even try to counter my points on the exclusion of non-whites. Go ahead. Go to their site. Check out all of their banners and ads. All of the ads that feature people--are of white people. These people would presume to be the saviors of rationality? While they become irrationally angry with me for pointing out something that I think is pretty damn obvious?
One of their ads features a woman in camouflage holding up a badge, and looking straight into the camera--fully clothed. This woman is presumably also attractive, so why not show that ad a bunch of times all over the internet?
Did I attack any of them personally? No. I expressed frustration at their tactics, while also telling them that I realize their cause is important. Rationality is extremely important, but one must also have principles.