Archive for October, 2007
Who are the potty mouths (I better be close to the top! Damn! Looks like I better get fucking going on some profane posts!)
fuck - asshole - cunt - dick - dickhead - shithead - shit - "Mother Fucker" - "ass clown" - "fucktard" - "shit-for-brains" - goddamn - twat - bitch - bloody
(for the Brits...and Aussies? Do Aussies say "bloody"?) - "douche bag" - "ass monkey"
Notify me if you have a real good profane word I may have forgotten or am unaware of (that isn't in use in these here parts). Future additions will saved into the sidebar at the left.
Phelps Slammed With Huge Damage Award
BALTIMORE (AP) - A federal jury on Wednesday awarded the father of a fallen Marine $2.9 million in compensatory damages after finding an anti-gay Kansas church and three of its leaders liable for invasion of privacy and intent to inflict emotional distress for picketing the Marine’s funeral in 2006. The jury was to begin deliberating the size of punitive damages after receiving further instructions, although U.S. District Judge Richard Bennett noted the size of the compensatory award “far exceeds the net worth of the defendants,” according to financial statements filed with the court.
Hopefully this will put these bigots out of business for good.
It Halloween as and in the spirit of trick or treat I thought to take this oppurtunity to advertise the goodies on my side bar. Just a quick, what they do and why I've linked them.
Fundie Watch
An absolutely hillarious blog, mostly picking apart a man named Matt J Barber who seems to be the only member of Concerned Women for America (Go figure!).
Bay of Fundie
A slightly more in depth analysis of fundie propeganda from all over the spectrum. Check out Kook Watch while you're there!
Christopher Hitchens (a.k.a. build up that wall)
The author of the wonderful book: 'God is not great'. If you have a few dollars lying around I suggest you buy it! Posting on the forums here is another great way of spreading the message and getting people motivated!
Richard Dawkins
The much publicized book 'The God Delusion' brought atheism to the publics attention, with some hillarious results on Bill O'Reilly. The site has some great resources too!
Carnival of the Godless
Carnival of the Godless is like a magazine. The content varies from week to week and it covers a broad range of tones from deadly serious to absolutely hillarious. They update every 2 weeks and it is definitely a must read!
Its over 400 blogs dealing with atheism and agnosticism in one place! What could be better? I've pasted the link above and to the side, please look through and if you see anything you like click on it!
Reply from Barack Obama! Obviously I wrote him off too soon for which I apologise. Please enjoy.
Dear .......,
Thank you for contacting us about faith. We encourage you to read the full Call to
Renewal speech where Barack explicitly addresses people of all faiths, and people of
no faith. You can read the full text of the speech here:
http://www.barackobama.com/2006/06/28/call_to_renewal_keynot e_address.php
Again, ......., thank you for writing and for your support.
Sincerely,
Carrie
Correspondent
Obama for America Edit:
This speech is rather long so for those of you with less time on your hands I think the next
few paragraphs sum the whole speech up. If you feel I've taken this out of context please let
me know. Imagine Lincoln's Second Inaugural Address without reference to "the judgments of the Lord." Or King's I Have a Dream speech without references to "all of God's children." Their summoning of a higher truth helped inspire what had seemed impossible, and move the nation to embrace a common destiny.
Our failure as progressives to tap into the moral underpinnings of the nation is not just rhetorical, though. Our fear of getting "preachy" may also lead us to discount the role that values and culture play in some of our most urgent social problems.
After all, the problems of poverty and racism, the uninsured and the unemployed, are not simply technical problems in search of the perfect ten point plan. They are rooted in both societal indifference and individual callousness - in the imperfections of man.
Solving these problems will require changes in government policy, but it will also require changes in hearts and a change in minds. I believe in keeping guns out of our inner cities, and that our leaders must say so in the face of the gun manufacturers' lobby - but I also believe that when a gang-banger shoots indiscriminately into a crowd because he feels somebody disrespected him, we've got a moral problem. There's a hole in that young man's heart - a hole that the government alone cannot fix.
...
In fact, because I do not believe that religious people have a monopoly on morality, I would rather have someone who is grounded in morality and ethics, and who is also secular, affirm their morality and ethics and values without pretending that they're something they're not. They don't need to do that. None of us need to do that.
But what I am suggesting is this - secularists are wrong when they ask believers to leave their religion at the door before entering into the public square. Frederick Douglas, Abraham Lincoln, Williams Jennings Bryant, Dorothy Day, Martin Luther King - indeed, the majority of great reformers in American history - were not only motivated by faith, but repeatedly used religious language to argue for their cause. So to say that men and women should not inject their "personal morality" into public policy debates is a practical absurdity. Our law is by definition a codification of morality, much of it grounded in the Judeo-Christian tradition.
.....
Moreover, if we progressives shed some of these biases, we might recognize some overlapping values that both religious and secular people share when it comes to the moral and material direction of our country. We might recognize that the call to sacrifice on behalf of the next generation, the need to think in terms of "thou" and not just "I," resonates in religious congregations all across the country. And we might realize that we have the ability to reach out to the evangelical community and engage millions of religious Americans in the larger project of American renewal.
...
So the question is, how do we build on these still-tentative partnerships between religious and secular people of good will? It's going to take more work, a lot more work than we've done so far. The tensions and the suspicions on each side of the religious divide will have to be squarely addressed. And each side will need to accept some ground rules for collaboration.
...
For one, they need to understand the critical role that the separation of church and state has played in preserving not only our democracy, but the robustness of our religious practice. Folks tend to forget that during our founding, it wasn't the atheists or the civil libertarians who were the most effective champions of the First Amendment. It was the persecuted minorities, it was Baptists like John Leland who didn't want the established churches to impose their views on folks who were getting happy out in the fields and teaching the scripture to slaves. It was the forbearers of the evangelicals who were the most adamant about not mingling government with religious, because they did not want state-sponsored religion hindering their ability to practice their faith as they understood it.
...
And even if we did have only Christians in our midst, if we expelled every non-Christian from the United States of America, whose Christianity would we teach in the schools? Would we go with James Dobson's, or Al Sharpton's? Which passages of Scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is ok and that eating shellfish is abomination? How about Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount - a passage that is so radical that it's doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application? So before we get carried away, let's read our bibles. Folks haven't been reading their bibles.
This brings me to my second point. Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values. It requires that their proposals be subject to argument, and amenable to reason. I may be opposed to abortion for religious reasons, but if I seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or evoke God's will. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all.
...
But a sense of proportion should also guide those who police the boundaries between church and state. Not every mention of God in public is a breach to the wall of separation - context matters. It is doubtful that children reciting the Pledge of Allegiance feel oppressed or brainwashed as a consequence of muttering the phrase "under God." I didn't. Having voluntary student prayer groups use school property to meet should not be a threat, any more than its use by the High School Republicans should threaten Democrats. And one can envision certain faith-based programs - targeting ex-offenders or substance abusers - that offer a uniquely powerful way of solving problems.
...
And that night, before I went to bed I said a prayer of my own. It's a prayer I think I share with a lot of Americans. A hope that we can live with one another in a way that reconciles the beliefs of each with the good of all. It's a prayer worth praying, and a conversation worth having in this country in the months and years to come.
Make of it what you will.
Ron Paul is our first replier and I would like to thank Chris Robertson for getting back to me so swiftly.
Here is the email:
Dear .....,
Thank you for taking the time to write the campaign to personally find out more about Dr. Paul's view on the role of faith in his life. One of Dr. Paul's primary messages is about personal freedom and liberty, meaning that government should not dictate individual behavior to people so long as they are not engaging in activity that harms others. A person's faith is a deeply personal and private issue which the government should never dictate. Dr. Paul supports personal and economic freedom, including the choice to not engage in organized religion. Let me also refer you to this link, it outlines Dr. Paul's position on racism and prejudice which I think outlines his position rather well. I'm sure you will understand the relevance as it relates to your question.
http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2007/tst041607.htm
Yours in Liberty,
Chris Robertson
Ron Paul 2008
Please leave a comment for Mr Paul and the rest of us! Free speech and discussion, you've gotta love 'em!
To find out what the heck is going on please go here: How this all began
This is just a list of presidential hopefuls with links to their: Contact Me pages so you can send them your own letter! Show the polititians we have a voice! Regardless of your political stance, we should NOT be a silent minority. Please send any replies you receive to us here at GodlessHeathen so others can read!
(I oppose using capitals to accentuate a point however I'm unable to use Italics on this thing at the moment, please ignore it)
The Democrats
Joe Biden
Senator of Delaware
Status: Has not replied
Hillary Rodham Clinton
Senator of New York
Status: Has replied with an apology. "Your query cannot be answered"
Chris Dodd
Senator of Connecticut
Status: Has not replied
John Edwards
Former Senator of North Carolina
Status: Has not replied
Mike Gravel
Former Senator of Alaska
Status: Has not replied
Dennis Kucinich
Representative of Ohio's 10th District
Status: Has not replied
Barack Obama
Senator of Illinois
Status: Has replied! Read it here
Bill Richardson
Governor of New Mexico
Status: Has not replied
The Republican Candidates
Rudy Giuliani
Former Mayor of New York
Status: Has not replied
Mike Huckabee
Former Governor of Arkansas
Status: Has not replied
Duncan Hunter
Representative of Riverside, California
Status: Has not replied
Alan Keyes
Former Reagan diplomat
Status: Has not replied
John McCain
Senator of Arizona
Status: Has not replied
Ron Paul
Representative from Texas
Status: Has replied! See it here
Tom Tancredo
Representative from Colorado
Status: Has not replied
(Please note Mr Tancredo's email link does not work, I had to fax him.)
Fred Thompson
Former Senator of Tennessee
Status: Has not replied
Happy emailing!
If you would like to contact Mitt Romney please do so here. I personally don't trust myself to write to him in a pleasant and inquisitive manner, as I hope I have done all the others, and as such will not be expecting a reply any time soon! If any of you write to him and receive a reply please send it in!
In February 2006 Mitt Romney said: "Well, I think people in this country want a person of faith to lead them as their governor, as their senator, as their president" Effectively stating that anyone who didn't have faith in their imaginary friend wasn't fit for office.
This enraging/insulting/hopelessly misguided point has been put to my 11 year old sister on a number of occasions by adults. However, as I was out of the country at the time it didn't come to my attention until I started reading backlogs of The Carnival of the Godless. Unfortunately the exact article I was reading eludes me, if it was you please let me know! But the blog entry I read basically encouraged readers to do the following: Ask Mitt Romney what message he wants to send to godless children? And why does he think they'll never be qualified for office?
I decided not to ask Mitt Romney anything, as I feel even buying a ticket to one of his events qualifies as a statement somewhere along the lines of: Joseph-Smith-though-he's-dead-should-still-have-an-influence -over-policies. Instead I sent an email (and in one case a fax) to all presidential hopefuls, except Mitt Romney, asking what they thought of us "Godless Heathens" and how they would try and curb our villification.
I wasn't exactly sober when I did it, but the letter went something like this:
Dear Senator,
As a first time voter, I am delighted that on looking through your website and throughout internet, I am provided with a vast wealth of information regarding your opinions and beliefs about almost every problem facing America, and the world today.
I have a concern regarding your lack of opinion, and policy ideas, regarding faith and the lack thereof. I have yet to find a candidate who will address the issue of non-believers. Mitt Romney is quoted as saying: I'm convinced that the nation . . . needs a person of faith to lead the country. A statement basically telling me and my younger brother and sister that just because we don't believe in God, we are not authorized to be president. This is regardless of our compassion for humanity, knowledge on foreign policy or any other distinguishing feature which may qualify us for the job.
Mitt Romney received a standing ovation for that statement, and it gets worse. Atheists are said to be less trustworthy than any other group of Americans. My 11 year old sister has been told, by grown women, that she is going to hell. Parents have told their children to deliberately ostracize my siblings due to their lack of belief. A teacher, in a public school, mentioned God and that evolution was "sinful" to a classroom and when we protested were told that, as the minority, we were unable to have a voice on the matter. I will be contacting the ACLU about this.
So my question is: What do you plan on doing to ensure that we have freedom 'from' religion. And how will you help others understand that atheists are not "the anti-christ" and not out to get Christians, or Muslims, or Hindu's. We want what the religious want, tolerance and understanding.
I look forward to your reply,
Not the best worded letter, and yes it's presumptuous of me to say We want... but I'm sure you understand the general premise, and hopefully the candidates will too!
In the spirit of Halloween, I thought that I'd spark a discussion of something truly horrific... murder most foul, and in the Bible, no less!One form of the fallacy may be summarized as follows:
* Fact 1: X claims statement A.
* Fact 2: X claims that X is not lying.
* Conclusion: Therefore, A is true.
Put into practice, this fallacy would read:
* Fact 1: This book says that goats can fly.
* Fact 2: This book says that it is true.
* Conclusion: Therefore, goats can fly.
Source: Bare assertion fallacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
See also: Ontological argument - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Thanks: Quazy Quistian Question # 1 from No More Hornets by
Here is a post from the Dawkins' forums that essentially credits us, and specifically the Nightline debacle with Cameron/Comfort, for his deconversion from christianity. I find this terribly ironic since some of the regulars at the RDF site are extremely critical of us and our methods, some even going so far as saying that we will never affect anybody's beliefs and that we somehow harm atheism. I find it telling that when this was posted on their boards, nobody had anything to say. Why didn't they explain to this person that they shouldn't have been persuaded by our juvenile, offensive argumentation? Why was the typical response to anything having to do with us not represented in this thread? Go ahead and explain to this poster all the reasons why we are ineffective and pedantic stupid morons. I triple-dog dare you.
ThatTallDJ:
Hello everyone, and thanks in advance for your warm welcomes. I suppose it is necessary to go into the obligatory story of my personal journey, but I promise to be as brief as I can. (Disclaimer: I am not capable of being very brief)
Religion is dumb. That’s why it’s so much fun for us atheists to think up hard Questions for Christians. But I don’t understand why we spend so much time challenging believers about seemingly serious issues like, say, the Ontological Argument or the Euthyphro Dilemma. I’ve got a collection basket full of inane queries that need answering.
So I’m driving through town this morning, and an attractive woman in a red SUV whooshes past me in the right lane and cuts me off. I was already going a few miles per hour over the speed limit (well, in my book, twenty is “a few”). But this woman was clearly on some kind of mission.
Naturally, I leaned on the horn. I did this before I saw her two bumper stickers. On the left: Rejoice in the Lord. On the right: Honk if you’re not wearing any underwear.
Now, it so happened that I wasn’t wearing any underwear at the time. Sometimes, I’m just too lazy or too tired to dig through my highboy to find something to cover up my lowboys. But why my poor scrambled huevos should have been of any interest to a woman whose sunny side up was at least twenty-five years fresher than mine, was beyond me. Only her mysterious pal in the sky could know. When we were stopped at a red light on the next corner, she leaned her head and arm out the window, turned around to face me, and gave me what I at first thought was the finger. But it wasn’t. It was a thumbs-up.
I’d earned the approval of a beautiful Jesus-jumping stranger going commando just by sharing what she thought was a trivial confidence: Hey, I left my tighty-whities in my bottom drawer at home. And what aren’t you wearing, Sweetheart?
My angry impulse had resulted in a sweet, suggestive, smile — which I, of course, returned. And I wondered, “How embarrassed is she gonna be when the rapture comes and all of us forsaken sinners are left admiring her bare behind as it ascends to heaven?”
Anyway, seeing my response, she pointed toward the back of her car. I thought maybe I had a flat tire, or there was a dead animal in the road between us. I rolled down my window, leaned my head out, and shouted the most intelligent thing I could think of to say under the circumstances: “What? What?”
The woman turned almost completely around toward me, leaned over the back of her seat, placed her palms and fingertips together in the praying position, and looked up at the interior roof of her car. It’s impossible to know for sure what or who was up there, but a miracle happened. The light changed. I don’t know if that’s what she was praying for, but I saw it with my own eyes. When the impatient elderly couple in the Honda behind me let off a couple of feeble annoyed beeps, the woman must have thought the sounds were coming from me again.
As she raced away, the woman stuck another thumbs-up out the window. I half-hoped that she’d flash me at the next stoplight. But I did worry that she’d misinterpret my reponse to think I was trying to tell her “Christ is risen.” In any case, it never came up, because she was well out of sight within a minute.
This little story leads me to my very first series of inane queries: What do the pious think will happen to their clothing when they die? Do they imagine that they’re going to an eternal ectoplasmic nudist camp? Or do they anticipate an everlasting fancy-dress ball? Perhaps they think they’ll all be outfitted in identical choir robes without anything underneath. Sure, wise guys can dismiss this problem: Nobody is stupid enough to think that underwear’s gonna be an issue in the afterlife. But if religious people truly believe that each soul is unique, then any one of them, once dead, oughta be able to recognize others and distinguish between them.
OK, how? What exactly will those spirits be staring at?
I’ll tell you this: the attractive woman in the SUV will never trouble her pretty empty head about the Argument from Design. Where she’s going, design, at least of undergarments, won’t be a concern. There’s no way that she’s putting on a push-up bra any time during her vacation in infinity. The only question she’ll need to answer will be: Is it possible to honk when there are no cars around?
Quazy Quistian Question # 1:
Will souls need clothes in heaven? Explain your response.
UPDATE: So, if I read the USGS.gov site correctly, what we felt was a 5.6 magnitude.
Crikey.
News story from the SF Chronicle. That paper is so not worth .50 cents.
(10-30) 21:09 PDT San Jose -- An earthquake with a preliminary magnitude of 5.6 and an epicenter in the South Bay shook the Bay Area at 8:04 p.m. tonight, rolling and jolting buildings so powerfully that it prompted some people to duck for shelter.Link.
&
The quake's epicenter was about five miles north-northeast of Alum Rock, California, and nine miles northeast of San Jose's City Hall, the USGS said. It hit at 8:04 p.m. (11:04 p.m. ET).Link.
There were no immediate reports of damage or casualties. Rafael Abreu of the USGS said that a 5.6 quake was considered moderate but could provide "a pretty strong jolt."
The earthquake's epicenter was 5.7 miles below the Earth's surface. Earthquakes centered close to the surface produce stronger shaking and generally can cause more damage than those farther underground.
Alum Rock is 50 miles southeast of San Francisco.
Here goes:
1) Have you always been skeptical towards religious beliefs? If not, would you mind describing the definitive moment or gradual process that led you to an atheistic worldview?
No, I have not always been skeptical towards religious beliefs. Having been raised Catholic, I grew up with the assumption that the Bible was the word of God. During the middle of 9th grade, I became deeply religious. I went to church freely and willingly every Sunday, I read the Bible from start to finish three times in a row, and I even slept with the Bible in my bed.
My skepticism and erosion of faith set in about twenty years ago, and so many precise details are obscured by the mists of time and the cob webs in my head. I don't believe it was any one thing. Part of it was that I didn't see my religious faith improving my life. But a major factor in the erosion and loss of my faith was that I began to read the Bible with a critical eye rather than just assuming it was true. I also read the texts of other religious faiths and was particularly impressed with the Buddhist Dhammapadda and portions of the Hindu Bhagavad-Gita. I saw similar moral teachings in all of them, and I drew the conclusion that certain morals were universal and spanned all of the religions. With that, I no longer believed that Christianity represented the one and only truth.
But, rather than abandoning belief in God, I posited a god that transcended human attempts to categorize such a being of immense power into a single religion. I reasoned that a universal creator wanted us to be good in our actions and that churches and rituals were just empty trappings. If two people behaved the same, but one went to church and the other did not, then what really made the church-goer better than the one who did not go to church? However, as time went by, I became further disillusioned. Rather than feeling empowered, I was still the same flawed and unhappy person I was before. I began to realize that there was nobody there. Letting go of my belief in a creator was more difficult than abandoning Christianity. I made the leap from believing that I was god's special servant on Earth to just being an ordinary person whose happiness or sadness was of his own making.
2) What do you find to be the greatest obstacle to religious belief? Please feel free to write more than one.
For me, the greatest obstacle is that religious belief clashes with my sense of reason. It just seems bizarre that I should be expected to believe that the universe is created by a being of immense power and that the most important thing for this creator is that you believe it caused a virgin in the Middle East some 2,000 years ago to become pregnant and that her son performed miracles and rose from the dead. For me, it belongs in the same category as the belief that who I am as a person is determined by my zodiac sign.
3) Do you believe there is any intellectual merit to a theistic worldview?
A qualified yes. While I am an unabashed atheist, I do not consider myself to be anti-religious. It is my impression that for many religious people, their religious beliefs serve as a guidepost for how to conduct themselves. Churches definitely have a positive role to play in reaching and directing large numbers of people to further the cause of social justice. The black churches, for example, were vital to the Civil Rights movement of the 50's and 60's. I have no problem with acknowledging that. If religious beliefs encourage people to be better human beings and to want to effect positive change in society, then yes, I believe that is a good thing.
4) Although you may not find them to be ultimately convincing, what arguments/assertions, if any, are most compelling for belief in a deity? How has this argument for theism ultimately been inadequate for you?
I would say that the most compelling argument for belief in a deity is how did the universe come about? And the reason for that is that since we are dealing with an event that happened so many billions of years ago, science does not possess enough information at present to adequately answer the question, at least that I have seen. That being the case, what makes the argument inadequate for me is that when you consider how vast the universe is, then a creator would have to be even greater than that. And that raises questions such as where did the creator come from, or even more, why should anything exist at all, including a creator? Furthermore, the increase of scientific knowledge over the last few centuries has pushed back the veil of ignorance about the universe in which we live. We have gone from believing in a geocentric universe in which everything revolved around the Earth up to a nearly infinite universe in which ours is just one solar system in a galaxy comprised of billions of stars in a universe comprised of millions of galaxies.
5) Is the worldview you possess today the result of an inconsistency in religious belief alone? If not, what do you find most compelling about atheism?
In his book "The God Delusion", Richard Dawkins humorously mentions a self-described atheist in Northern Ireland being asked, "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?"
It should come as no surprise that atheists who were once religious can still have a worldview that is influenced at least to some degree by their religious upbringing. If I were an atheist in India I imagine I would be quite different culturally from the atheist in suburban New York that I am.
Atheism is simply the absence of belief in a deity. What becoming an atheist did for me was that it made me think about why certain things should be good or bad or beneficial or harmful on their own merits rather than just letting the Bible do my thinking for me. Take the issue of homosexuality. When I was a religious person, I had a rather bigoted attitude towards gays. Growing up in the 1980's, with the advent of AIDS, I shared the cultural attitude common at the time that gays were getting what they deserved. After I became an atheist and I actually met and became friends with openly gay people when I volunteered at a crisis hotline in the early 1990's, my bigotry towards gays evaporated. The Christian belief regarding gays was that intimate contact between two people of the same gender was a terrible sin in the eyes of god. But as an atheist, it struck me as absurd that Adam kissing Steve instead of Eve would cause a creator to throw a temper tantrum. As far as I was concerned, there was no comparison between two men in a loving, long-term monogamous relationship and a man who engages in risky unprotected sex with multiple partners in a bathhouse. Acts should be judged by the harm they do to the individual and/or society, rather than just being the subject of blanket condemnation based on what some ancient religious text says.
6) Please describe your experience with theists who attempt to persuade you towards religious beliefs.
There has not been much in the way of face to face attempts to persuade me. The one time I clearly recall, it ended when I told the person that I no longer wanted to discuss it as he was not going to change me mind and vice versa.
7) Is there any advice you would give to theists who seek to convince the world of their beliefs?
Yes. First off, I believe in being an exemplar instead of a crusader. I believe in being a living affirmation of my values. While I am happy to offer advice if asked, I know I do not have all the answers and that my time is better spent trying to better myself rather than trying to get other people to be like me. Theists should spend more time making sure their own lives are in order instead of worrying that their atheist friend, neighbor or co-worker is going to burn in hell for all eternity if we don't accept Jesus Christ as our lord and savior.
Second, while theists labor under the mistaken belief that atheists are not moral, we do in fact have coherent and well thought out value systems. Being the father of two small children, I want a world where they have the opportunity to be safe from violence, disease, and hunger just as much as Christian parents desire the same things for their children. Theists should not assume that atheists do not share the same apprehension and loathing of aspects of our culture that promote vulgarity and materialism.
Third, theists, no matter what their religion, are just going to have to accept that they will never convert 100% of the human race to their particular religion. If one values a pluralistic and free society, than one must learn that tolerance is crucial to the maintenance of such a society. The problem with more fundamentalist followers of religions is that they come into conflict with others in society who openly do not abide by the religious beliefs of the fundamentalists. For example, take a Muslim man in America who believes that all women should be veiled. The fact that he must exist in a population where the overwhelming majority of women are not veiled is a daily rebuke to him whenever he ventures outdoors. Won't his wife's piety be weakened by living in a society where the veil is scorned.
And with that I shall have to call it a night as it is getting late and I can barely keep my eyes open. I hope my answers to your questions have been adequate, Jason.
Regards,
Tom
Should we start bloodletting and burning witches again? Should we roll back women's voting rights and reinstate slavery? Some believe we should, I guess, but I think most reasonable people will agree that we shouldn't run our country based on the ignorance of our ancestors just because they did some pretty amazing things when they formed this country.
Can't we follow the principles that still make sense today without turning our backs on rationality?
Technorati Tags: humor Atheist Bible Christianity Comics humor rationality
First, Bill Maher threw people out of his studio after they wouldn't stop shouting "What happened to building 7?"
Then Bill Clinton responded to a similar rant by a heckler:
Unfortunately I'm personally familiar with people who believe in these conspiracy claims suggesting that the 9/11 attacks were planned by our government and not by terrorists. At one point these people called the Atheist Experience several times and got very mad at us when we wouldn't take them seriously. Matt once spoke dismissively about the conspiracy theories on The Non-Prophets, and we got multiple emails that repeated the inane phrase "Oh, so you believe the CONSPIRACY THEORY that our GOVERNMENT promotes?"
Besides that, 9/11 truthers infest the phone lines for the Washington Journal morning show on C-SPAN (which I often watch while getting breakfast), and various Air America hosts are constantly bombarded by demands to swear loyalty to these ideas. There is a two hour amateur documentary out on the internet called Zeitgeist. We keep getting email about this movie all the time, and my blood pressure goes up a couple of points every time I see yet another message about it. Zeitgeist starts with a semi-interesting story arguing against the existence of a historical Jesus, and then degenerates into 9/11 "truth" claims about the World Trade Center attack being an inside job. For good measure, they also throw in some stuff about how federal income taxes are illegal. Riiiight.
I confess: I haven't watched Zeitgeist all the way through. I've tried a couple of times, but it is a fairly awful bit of film making, and I didn't have the patience to sit through two hours of it. I gave it another chance today, just so I would have more to say about it. Tried turning it on and listening to the audio while I worked. The problem is that most of the "shocking revelations" require the movie to clear the screen of any action and display text for several seconds while ominous music plays. So I can't follow the thread of the story unless I sit in rapt attention staring at the screen for the full two hours.
Attention, budding filmmakers: Movies are not the right medium for text. I'm fine with reading a long article, and I'm fine with watching a movie, but don't mix the two. People read things at different speeds. The advantage of a movie is that it presents a sequence of entertaining visual images and compelling sounds. The advantage of text is that you can go through it at your own pace, and you can jump backwards to reread something you missed. A movie with lots of text combines the worst of both formats: The movie is boring, and the text is hard to read. Most of the text is too slow and you have to sit there staring at something you've already read, but if you take your attention away from the screen, you'll miss something and never see it again.
DON'T DO THAT! Watch a Michael Moore movie sometime for an example of how to do it right. Even if you think that Michael Moore is a big fat jerk, and everything he says is a total lie, the guy knows how to make an entertaining movie. You don't get an academy award for putting a full page of text on the screen every thirty seconds.
I have a lot of reasons for thinking that the "inside job" explanation of 9/11 is bullshit, but here's what it really comes down to. Big conspiracies don't work. The bigger they are, the less likely they are to be successfully covered up. Franklin said it best: "Three can keep a secret if two are dead."
It should be no surprise that I'm not a big fan of Team Bush, and I believe their actions have led to the deaths of thousands of innocents, in various ways. But IMHO, these deaths have mostly come about due to apathy and greed, not deliberate attempts to kill American citizens.
It's not that I think Bush and company are a bunch of swell guys who would never harm a living person. It's that I find it completely ludicrous to think that they could plan something this elaborate and make it work without a hitch. Look at Iraq. The Project for a New American Century folks were planning that one for decades, and yet it seems like they sincerely believed that we would be greeted as liberators and have candy and flowers thrown at us when we arrived. Slight miscalculation on their part, no?
The conspiracy dreamt up by 9/11 "Truth" ("You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means") is massive in scope. Whether they're claiming that explosives were planted inside the buildings, or that the government fired missiles at the Pentagon, or that all the news videos released were actually fake... all these ideas require an insanely large number of people to be in on the conspiracy. Let's see, there's the people who planned the actual attack, and much of their staff; the people at the airport; the news organizations that collaborated in spreading fake videos; etc, etc. You can say that some of them were dupes who didn't know the whole plan, but in a scheme this big and this well-executed, you need a LOT of people to have a significant portion of The Big Picture in order to handle their jobs correctly. I think my Project Management professor will probably agree with me there.
What 9/11 truthers are suggesting is that every one of these people was an intentional accessory to the murder of nearly 3,000 people. Now, you can call me a starry-eyed idealist, but I just find it beyond the limits of my credibility that among all those people, not one of them grew a conscience enough to let slip a little information about what they saw.
Think about it... who's promoting the conspiracy? People who would actually be in a position to know anything about it? Government workers, airport workers, aids to important people? No... college kids who are meticulously studying the frames of grainy video footage, and theoreticians pontificating on how the laws of physics prevent smashed up burning buildings from falling down.
Yes, Bush was negligent in following up on credible threats. Yes, he and others like him have done a fantastically good job of exploiting the tragedy at every possible chance. But this looks to me much more like a case of answering opportunity when it knocks, not getting hundreds of American citizens intentionally involved in the murder of thousands.
Conspiracy nuts, give it a rest already. The fact that everyone you contact hangs up on you and doesn't listen is not "censorship," nor is the fact that you were thrown out of a private studio for disruptively yelling at the host. I hang up on you on our cable access show because you are annoying and sound silly.
If you want to read more amusing stuff on the 9/11 conspiracy theories, may I recommend:
- Bill Maher again. This is the video that inflamed those people into harassing Maher in his studio in the first place. "New rule: Crazy people who still think the government brought down the Twin Towers in a controlled explosion, have to stop pretending that I'm the one who's being naive."
- Matt Taibbi: The Hopeless Stupidity of 9/11 Conspiracy Theories. BUSH: "So, what's the plan again?" CHENEY: "Well, we need to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. So what we've decided to do is crash a whole bunch of remote-controlled planes into Wall Street and the Pentagon, say they're real hijacked commercial planes, and blame it on the towelheads; then we'll just blow up the buildings ourselves to make sure they actually fall down."
- The Best Page in the Universe (their title, not mine): "Now we're expected to believe that the same government that was able to commit the largest terrorist operation in history--with military precision no less--is suddenly too incompetent to sniff out and shut down a little website set up by some college losers within days, if not minutes of its creation?"
The way some American fundamentalist Christians whine, anyone would think that Christians were being dragged from their homes and down to the local football arena to be fed to the Lions.
Where does this persecution complex come from? Western Chrstians I argue face no real persecution, a look at Persecution.org, a christian site tracking persecution of Christians world wide. It does not list North America and has no reported cases for the European Union.
You have a Fundamentalist Christian as the leader of you country, one could argue that you couldn't have it any better.
Sure recently in the West we have seen the rise of vocal atheism, criticisms of religion(not just Christian by the way) this is NOT persecution.
Persecution = is persistent mistreatment or harasment of an individual/group by another group.
In fact with your picketing of abortion clinics, and gay rights events, it could be argued that persecution in the US stems from Fundamentalist believers.
American fundamentalist christians would have to be some of the richest and politically powerful christians on the planet and it disgusts me that you even have the gall to complain when christians and other ethnic/racial/religious minorities in other countries actually have to face torture/death for their beliefs.
Bring back the lions? No just some common sense and a wider perspective and understanding of the world.
Qiyamah, aharit ha-yamim, Final Judgement, Day of Purification, Ragnarok, the Apocalypse, Armageddon.
The phrases above all refer to the same general event: the end of the world.
One of the most dehumanising and potentially dangerous beliefs that virtually all religions, and certainly all monotheisms share, is the end of the world. Worse still, monotheism actively looks forward to the end of the world. Moreover, whether consciously or subconsciously, it looks to get our real human life out of the way as soon as possible.
I think there is something perverse about this belief, and there is no denying it: all monotheisms teach that this life is only temporary; a short sinful stop in a depraved world where the alternative to belief is nihilism, before we finally pass over to the next life where we will be rewarded forever and ever in paradise or tortured forever and ever in hell (disproportionate to say the least, would one think, given that eternity is infinite and our human lives are infinitesimal in comparison).
For this reason, monotheism devalues human life. It treats human nature like a curse, and strangles much happiness out of our existence with egregious circumscriptions on almost every facet of behaviour. The irony here is that the Original Lie told by Satan according to Genesis, is the one that all religions perpetuate: You positively will not die. I think there is something deeply opprobrious about telling people that which you do not know, and cannot possibly know; it is the worst kind of lie.
This life is all there is. That’s a fact. It’s a good a fact as the earth goes around the sun, and elephants cannot fly, more so indeed. (We might not like the idea, but there is no connection between wishful-thinking and truth.) If I had to confect a lie to take away what meaning this life has, make people waste and squander it, and remove as much delectation as possible, I would struggle to contrive a better one than to tell people that this life is not only the end, but it is actually a constant struggle against flagitious desires and a libidinous nature, all in the servile veneration of a galactic dictator. A struggle that, in comparison to the eternity that awaits you, is fugacious and meaningless. If I really believed that an eternity of paradise awaited me and fellow believers, (like I used to), I too would want this pitiful imperfect existence to hurry up and get over and done with! And herein is one of the problems: religion is anti-life. A true religious believer should not want to wait to shuffle off the mortal coil! But since this finite human life is all we will ever have, religion encourages people to waste it and wish for its end. What a deplorable tragedy.
But it gets worse. Not content with wishing for the end of life so that bountiful riches and joy can be realised, religion wishes not just for the end of a life, but all life. It awaits, what might euphemistically referred to, as the eschatological transformation; the End of Days, Armageddon.
The problem is not just that a belief in End Times is wholly false and plagiarised from other religions; all religious ideas about the end of the world are incredibly similar (for obvious reasons), it is that this belief is anti-human and dangerous in covert and overt ways.
Covertly, if one believes this miscreant old world is in the hands of sinners and is destined for judgement anyway, what is the point in trying to make it better? Why bother trying to help people if this is all part of a divine plan anyway, or the Cosmic Knight in Shining Armour is going to sweep in at the last minute and save the day anyway? There should be no need to worry about nuclear war; global warming; the exhaustion of fossil fuels; finding a cure for cancer; inventing new medicines that treat people and improve and prolong life; improving our lives with new technology; bettering yourself through personal and mental disciplines. This life is a one-stop supermarket where you’re only allowed to browse a tiny selection of what’s on offer, and you cannot leave the store without it anyway. This eschatological mindset encourages laziness and apathy on a grand scale. It is the very opposite of meliorism.
Overtly, this death cult of religion (to borrow from Chris Hitchens) which is a deserved obloquy for Judaism, Islam, and Christianity, readily manifests its more dangerous side by those who sincerely believe the world is coming to an end, and actively want to bring that end about. From the terrorist hijackers of 9/11 who sincerely believed they were going to paradise, to the theocratic Iranian nation actively seeking nuclear weapons and the right-wing Christian fundamentalists in America who hope the signal for Armageddon is given with a mushroom cloud, religion has become a very real threat to human life on a grand scale and civilisation itself. Fundamentalists readily pray for the End to come, but it is now not impossible for some of them to acquire the means to make it happen. What could be more terrifying than a nuclear state that has no concept of mutually-assured destruction (like the aforementioned Iran), and worse still, would actively welcome it?
This is not scaremongering, this is how the world is. All it takes is one religious fanatic to possess two vital ingredients: a solid faith backed up by the words of his own holy book, and a nuclear weapon. Finding the first has never been a problem for the faithful. Finding the second has always been problematic, and we, as Western secular powers, should keep it that way.
The eschatology ideology is a pernicious immoral anti-human delusion that breeds laziness, nihilism, resentment, oppression, a longing for and glorification of death, and the actual and potential of mass suffering.
It doesn’t have to be this way though. Humanism is a philosophy that puts human beings and our temporary lives at the centre of matters, and lauds the ability and potential that we all have, and treats life as a rare precious gift, not to be wasted bowing down, praying, feeling guilty, or wishing it away, but embraced and respected, because it’s the only one we’ll have.
Imagine you've never seen a calculator before. Someone shows you how to use it. You type in 2+2. It provides an answer: 4. You try it again. It answers 4 again. You try other equations, and they all return correct answers. After enough repeated attempts you become comfortable with the expectation that the calculator will return a correct answer, ergo, "the calculator knows math." This is your principle, which has been experimentally proven true.
Note that this is not axiomatically true; all calculators have a known bit-error-rate. Let's say, one in ten million calculations, you can type in 2 + 2 and it will answer, I dunno... twelve. Does this make the principle invalid? NO. It just makes it imperfect and still remarkably useful.
If you want to investigate why the calculator works, you might start with the hypothesis, "math elves live inside the calculator, awaiting your instructions. They then construct the answer and display it on the screen." Repeatedly using the calculator suggests that the elves do in fact come up with correct answers. But if you investigate further and take the cover off the calculator, it becomes apparent that there are no elves inside it. All you find is plastic and metal. You throw out the math elf hypothesis and form a new one regarding the materials you did observe. Let's say you eventually discover that the circuit board operates on the manipulation of electricity and the individual components behave consistently when voltage is applied to certain contacts.
The scientific method has a failure rate of zero. Not very small, not miniscule... ZERO.
How can I claim this when history documents all sorts of naive and incorrect scientific theories (i.e., phlogiston, ether, Lamarckian evolution)? Because the scientific method has nothing to do with identifying absolute truths.
It's about obtaining the most accurate model possible.
Functionally true according to the best information available at the time.
I can say the scientific method has a failure rate of zero simply because no scientific theory has ever been replaced by a competing theory that didn't fit the data as well.
Now imagine somebody comes up to you and proposes that it's not electrical interaction between the calculator's components, but that the calculator is actually a container that holds the mathematical spirit of the universe. All your electrical experiments still work. Is there any reason at all to throw those away in favor of a generic and vague explanation that ignores your data and has no explanatory power of its own?
Food for thought.










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